Author: Julie @ Latansani

This is the transcript of a conversation broadcast on BBC Radio Devon on 4th September, 2023. It was such a privilege to be able to chat so openly about Celebrancy, the need for a few changes in law, and the reasons behind why I chose this line of work, after so long in education. You can still catch the podcast on BBC catch up, between 10:15 and 11am…

David Fitzgerald

Business as a celebrant has been keeping my next guest very busy this summer and it’s from… well, both ends of the spectrum. Julie Chudleigh helps people at the start of their lives and pays tribute to them at the end. She’s the person who performs or officiates ceremonies and while you might normally most openly see her at weddings, also she does vowel renewals – Sorry, Julie, I keep saying vowel and every time I watch reality television, I say, “There’s a woman that needs a vowel renewal!” – baby namings, funerals, interments and memorials. Listen. First of all, have I got the description of a celebrant correct?

Julie Chudleigh

That’s pretty correct, yes, I often get referred to as a celibate, which is another thing entirely. And not true at all. But anyway, there you go. Yes, the celebrant is somebody who really does celebrate, or commemorate, or mark all the rights of passage in life in a… in a big ceremonial way. It’s a lovely job. I adore it.

David FitzGerald

Fantastic. Could be worse. You could be mistaken for a stick of celery that’s…

Julie Chudleigh

…not likely. We’ve met. You know, I’m much more like a doughnut.

David FitzGerald

And also, I loathe celery. Why was that invented? The disgusting stuff. Well, I’ve got to ask. Has it been busy for you?

Julie Chudleigh

Yes, it’s been very busy. Well, I say it’s been busy. It has been busy on the wedding front because traditionally, summer is wedding season and I’ve been really fortunate because the ceremonies that I’ve done, even if there’s been thunder and lightning the day before, it’s been glorious on the day that the celebration has taken place. Now, I’m not saying I’ve got any connections with any higher power. But… but… it’s just turned out really lucky that the weddings have been so lovely and sunny, so it’s been a joy.

David FitzGerald

A couple of weeks ago it was odd. The heavens opened and I’m talking biblical rain and I happen to know that there was somebody we vaguely knew… their daughter was getting married that day and we all sat down. Ohh no poor things.

Julie Chudleigh

So many of them (because the laws have changed slightly – not enough yet – we may get chance to talk about that in a minute, but the laws have changed slightly in that people can  get married anywhere, so they don’t have to be in, you know, a consecrated or registered room in order for the ceremony to take place.) So, a lot of them are planned to be outdoors. You know, you’ve got some wonderful flower filled alleyways that brides can come up through and it’s beautiful. So, if they’ve been planning that and then the rain puts a damper on it and you’re, you’re in a different room… obviously there are always contingency plans in place, but it’s much nicer if that’s their dream, to be wed outside.

David FitzGerald

Do you approve of that? You can get married in a car showroom or on the escalator of Debenhams… is that rather cheapening…?

Julie Chudleigh

I kind of…I kind of do! I tell you what I do approve of. I approve of choice. And I think that, you know, the way I liken it is if you if, when sadly someone passes, a person will go to the registrar of births, deaths and marriages and register that person deceased… with a doctor’s certificate. And then the ceremony for it takes place at some occasion afterwards, and it can be anywhere. So that place can reflect that person’s life. Likewise with a naming when a baby is born, somebody will go to the registrar and officially name the child. And then you can have a naming ceremony, a baptism, a christening, a blessing. You know, whatever your choice is. So, I think the same should actually apply to weddings, that you register a marriage. I mean, we are way behind in the UK. So many other countries actually have celebrants who are the official registrars. They are the ones who are nominated to be able to do so… it’s my own personal preference – because I think it’s a wonderful thing to be married; and I still believe in the sanctity of marriage – so, it’s my own personal preference to marry couples in places that reflect the loveliness of the coming together. But I still think it should offer freedom of choice.

David FitzGerald

Wo, wo, woah! Just… just step back a bit. Do you? Somebody comes to you and right, you’re the celebrant. Do… do you marry people or does there have to be another official in place? I missed that bit when you were talking about going through the registrar bit…are you guided with a… or associated with the registrar? The ceremony?

Julie Chudleigh

Unfortunately, disassociated with the registrars at the ceremony! All celebrants who work in the industry would really love to work with registrars, but it’s become a little bit of an issue. There’s a… there’s a working party that put papers to the government – a white paper to the government last year in July – and there’s lots of work going ahead to try and ensure that celebrants become the people that are actually officially marrying people, but what – in in my case – what I do is, I advise couples to seek the official legal document, which is literally… it can be done in a 15 minute ceremony; they obviously have to go through the official thing where they read the banns and they check that people are of sound mind and that there’s nobody being coerced into this union and that, literally, is a ceremony that needs to be witnessed and can cost £45. I think maximum is fifty… it depends on the county. And so, my preference is to say that couples do that beforehand. So that when I am leading the celebration of that marriage, I’m not allowed to use any of the legal words like, “Do you know of any lawful impediment?” That’s not my responsibility. But I can announce them as a married as a couple. So, there are occasions where couples want the registrar and myself to be present at the same time. Now the law states that we have to clearly make it 2 separate ceremonies. So, we had an issue where one registrar said I wasn’t allowed to be present and I did actually contest that to say, “Look, I’m a friend of the family. I’m a wedding guest, but I won’t, you know, impinge on the legal part of the ceremony until you have signed the document and we have made that clear.” So that’s essentially how it works, but they’re trying to change the laws on that.

David FitzGerald

Good grief! So, if you are married by a celebrant, is this a sweeping statement? It is not technically legal.

Julie Chudleigh

It’s not. No, it’s not. And we thought, you know, most people who are operating wedding venues are requested by the registrars to put up a sign to say that this is not a legal ceremony. But like I say, there is… I mean, it’s very discriminatory … so the laws actually state that you cannot have any religion in a civil ceremony and obviously then the church has got their own (regulation), so there are only certain religious buildings that you can be married in. So first of all, it’s wiping out swathes of people that are not from the Christian religion. You know, it also states that… what happens if a couple are marrying, who say, one is Christian, the other is Hindu. Or one is atheist because it does happen. You know, they say opposites attract, don’t they?  And then what? I was asked by a couple – this was just recently, actually, last week, not in Devon. And I won’t mention the name of the place. But I was asked by a couple to read that wonderful Bible reading from Corinthians, you know? It was in Four Weddings and a Funeral, the clanging symbol and the banging drum and love is patient, love is kind. And I was…I was banned from using it, because although the hotel had said that it wasn’t a religious ceremony (nor a civil ceremony) the registrars in that particular county had said that they would remove the venue licence if there was anything religious in the ceremony at all, so it’s quite complex laws (and they are misapplied by registrars and venues!)

David FitzGerald

Well, never knew that. Strangely, this year I have had to attend 2 weddings of the same couple, one in the Muslim faith and one in the Christian faith, because when they got married the first time around in front of an Imam,  they said the couple may still not live together until the Christian ceremony has taken place I just thought, “Ah, OK, fine, you know. What’s it called ….?

Julie Chudleigh

Wow, do you happen to know which which one, or either was legal?

David FitzGerald

I would have said both. One was in one was abroad, one was in Amsterdam and one was in this country, and I couldn’t quite understand why the… the…the Muslim faith said that until the Christian ceremony is gone, they may still not live together and. I thought OK. Fine. And it just shows that… that both sides were in agreement; both sides were thinking about the morality, but I just find it very odd. So Julie, I had… I had no idea. And we’ve learned things today that a celebrant was not actually a legal – if that’s the proper term – a legal status to carry out the ceremony in full. That’s the best way of putting it?

Julie Chudleigh

No, not yet. But if you look at Australia, New Zealand, Canada, France, Spain, you know several other overseas countries, we are way behind because in all of those countries, the celebrants are legal. There’s been a big movement from Humanists because they have said, that you know the… the marriage laws which were…. I mean the current laws, originate back to 1750 something, although there have been tweaks – obviously with you know regarding, you know, venues and the… the sexual, the gender of couples etcetera, which has changed things recently – the actual marriage laws are still more than 300 years old. Humanists challenged that a little while ago to say look, this is discriminatory. You know we… we want to actually talk about our beliefs. So, they’re kind of – if you like – doing religion without religion, if that makes sense. So they were the ones to pitch it and the government are considering that. But then I’m an independent celebrant which means particularly in terms of funerals… I… we… people have very strong faiths, but the reality is we don’t actually know what happens. So I think we just need to be really respectful of all faiths, all creeds, none, no creed if necessary. And so as an independent…you know, I have very strong values but will do what the deceased, the bereaved families would like to do. And likewise in weddings and naming services.

David FitzGerald

Right. Am I right in thinking the law changed many, many years ago? You can now get married on a Sunday. Have I imagined this at some point in this wonderful island’s history? You could not get married on a Sunday? Do you know that?

Julie Chudleigh

I…I don’t know. I think that’s not true because my brother and sister-in-law were married on October the 22nd, 1972 in Saint Lukes Church in Torquay (that was a Sunday) So, I’m not sure that that is true.

David FitzGerald

Right. OK. Anyone out there can help? I I sussed that bit of trivia at the back of my mind that at one point you…in this history of ours… you couldn’t get married on a Sunday, but maybe that has changed. I’m just looking online at the moment. The tradition fascinates me. You fascinate me. I had no idea you’re a complete fraud. Isn’t it fascinating? Why is she on here? Julie “the Jackal” Chudleigh will be back with us.

Ed Sheeran Song

David Fitzgerald

I’ve just had a quick scoot around the intima web and all I can find at the moment is that Sunday weddings were not traditionally in place. In olden days, there’s no actual specific date on this. Mainly because the priests would have been very busy anyway on a Sunday with worship, and that’s the only reason I can find it. But I’m pretty sure at one point you could not get married on a Sunday, but obviously that is not the case now.

David FitzGerald

Julie Chudleigh with us today. Thank you for shedding some light on there. Julie. I say this is fascinating. No idea.

Julie Chudleigh

It’s a pleasure to be able to shed some light on it because you know I I feel very strongly about this. We had a conversation the last time I was chatting to you. We were talking about why I think the role of a celebrant is important and I think that, you know, some people have moved away from the church, but there still needs to be a kind of…person connected with the family or a community who kind of offers guidance and experience and kindness and a little bit of wisdom when you’re facing these different rites of passage. So, I don’t… I don’t essentially see myself in a kind of counsellor or guidance role, but certainly when I’m working with a couple for weddings, I work with them over a long period of time. We meet at least eight times, in order to kind of pull the ceremony and the… and the appropriate wording together. Funnily enough, my brother and sister-in-law that I mentioned a minute ago were married in 1972. So obviously they celebrated their 50th last year and I stayed with them for a little while and I was laughing about the vows that they made back then. Because I think she promised to obey him. Ohh! my goodness me… Would they rewrite those vows if they had a chance now?

David FitzGerald

Well, things have moved on. I’m just looking at the 1753 Marriage Act. This is fascinating. Yeah, you had to stick to this, the Jewish religion and Quakers were exempt from this. Any clergyman who disobeyed this 1753 – this would include you now, Julie, 14 years transportation to Australia! It’s a lovely trip these days, especially if you’re going business class. Maybe not in 1753, but there we go. Oh, bizarre.

Julie Chudleigh

Archaic, some of those regulations really.

David FitzGerald

I believe the tower, which is now named the Elizabeth Tower at the Houses of Parliament, contains most of the incredibly outdated laws on now what’s it called vellum, isn’t it? Which is a more or less a a leathery type of paper. Yeah, but that’s just going to….You must not carry a sword within the Houses of Parliament. You can still claim up to 1976 that a woman was a witch. This is a law.

Julie Chudleigh

My son still claims that.

David FitzGerald

Ohh how did you get into this? Where did you start?

Julie Chudleigh

What, in celebrancy? Ohh it’s a number of things that kind of led to it. But the first was my… so, my mum passed away. Actually it was five years ago on the 31st of August. And we really couldn’t find anybody who could do the kinds of things that she wanted at her funeral service. Now, my father had passed away… I don’t know… 30 years before, and I still to this day remember what a horrific event that was. It was horrific in every sense of it. The vicar that didn’t know him, you know, used wrong names. You know, it was…it was…. When I say depressing, obviously funerals are sad and a (final) farewell. But it just didn’t bear any resemblance to the vibrant, you know, quite colourful character. So when it came to mum’s service, I said to my brothers, “OK. I’m going to do it!” They were quite horrified. Yeah, but I remember at the time…when my dad died, there were three brothers and they wanted to carry the casket and it left me out. Of course, you know the idea of a woman stepping forward back in the 1990s to actually carry the casket was just unheard of, so it was all about wanting this change to to the rituals that we have. I mean you mentioned in your introduction to me today about me being involved in education, you know, one of the things that we don’t do is think about how we explain this process to children. It’s really difficult to do so now. I actively encourage children to be part of the ceremony of saying goodbye to someone. Otherwise, how do they get closure? Some of the images that we kind of see, I mean when… when our dear Queen died and we watched what was happening there with, you know, some of the very stark – and and quite traumatic traumatising imagery – you know? The casket disappearing into the vaults below, and we don’t …we can’t explain that away. So, I want to effect change. I came into it because I want to effect change.

David FitzGerald

Excellent. And have you done it? Are you pleased with the situation? Are you happy where you are today?

Julie Chudleigh

I love what I’m doing. I absolutely love it. I mean, I’ve spent this weekend having conversations with people who are preparing for funeral ceremonies in this coming week, and the suggestions that I can put forward to them to make the process for them kinder, more respectful….gentler. Yes, I love it. But I think there’s still a long way to go. We still need quite a lot of change. But there were a number. Like I wrote a blog on the anniversary of my mum’s death talking about the idea of soul midwives, so soul midwives are … in the old days it would have been a vicar or a priest who would, you know, give absolution or read (last) rites of passage. But obviously people have moved so far away from that. And so the idea of actually helping someone to make that transition from life into death. As a kind of independent sort of guide is a really beautiful thing to encourage, and that is slowly kind of taking hold and people are becoming aware of that.

David FitzGerald

I find this absolutely incredible that this isn’t touched upon in schools. Surely there is. I don’t know what they call it now. Humanities or life lessons or …

Julie Chudleigh

So the… the RSHE is the relationship, sex and health education and it was, I think it was 2020 September that became compulsory in schools. So you have one organisation called the PSHE Organisation, which is the Personal Social Health Education – they’re like a kind of advisory organisation and I have been writing resources to bring this RSHE curriculum into schools, if you like. But in reality, it’s delivered in maybe half hour sessions. You know where English and maths and science and history and geography and and knowledge organisers and content is taken over from all of that. And yet the skills that we really need to help children to cope through life, be it dealing with death or looking at separation and divorce or, you know, reconstituted families…coping or dealing with credit and debit, it’s not addressed in this curriculum. And so yeah, I really want to continue affecting change. It might seem that the jobs that I do are  completely not related, but they are totally connected.

David FitzGerald

I think it’s fascinating, absolutely fascinating. Blunt question. Have you have you planned your funeral?

Julie Chudleigh

I have indeed. I don’t know whether I …

David FitzGerald

Thought you might.

Julie Chudleigh

I… I am going to tell you this because I would like to consider some kind of lalternative disposal of my mortal remains. Now there is a cemetery in Bristol who were, I don’t know. They were experimenting? I think this is kind of like taking quite a hold where they place a body into a pod. And the pod is raised above a pathway and your decomposing body will light up the pathway. And when I told my son that this is how I would like to, you know, be remembered. He said, good God, mother, we could hang you off the suspension bridge and you would keep Bristol lit for six years.

David FitzGerald

Your son’s got major issues, hasn’t he?

Julie Chudleigh

He’s a naughty boy, he really is.

David FitzGerald

Can I just play the next tune and we’ll dedicate this to your son because it’s fine, young cannibals. She drives me crazy. It was just designed… It’s not me, it’s the computer!

Song

David Fitzgerald

Julie Chudleigh, celebrant on the programme today… all around Devon, people are rushing to find their paperwork just in case they’re not married. Just don’t giggle like that. Everyone knows this. Apparently. According to a couple of texts that I’ve received. No, I didn’t. No, I didn’t that the celebrant may carry on the service, but. You’re not technically married at the end of that service, and you do stress this, Julie. I mean, the information is out there. It’s just that when I got married, it was 2222 years ago. Earlier, what was it was a Methodist minister. And yeah, things have moved on, definitely moved on, but I you say you’re busy. Do you do you charge? Is this the way that you actually make a living?

Julie Chudleigh

Yes, it is the way that I make a living. I mean, it’s the same in, you know, any kind of industry really. I mean, even clergy obviously charge. In fact, I charge the same fee as clergy because I don’t see it as a business. I need to…I need to make a living, but I don’t overcharge. And I’m in line with what the clergy charge because I’m performing that same kind of service and obviously there are costs involved for me. There are hours. I mean every ceremony that I produce is absolutely unique. I I frequently write unique poetry. You know, the, the committals are bespoke. Unless somebody’s specifically got an idea of a more traditional poem or or a way of saying something. So, yes. But my fees are not ridiculous and they’re in line with other celebrants. And I trained a couple of years ago with the Academy of Modern Celebrancy. It’s a brilliant organisation and there are hundreds… if you look at the directory there are…hundreds of celebrants all over the world. But even Scotland, Northern Ireland, Ireland, the celebrants can legally officiate in those countries. It’s only England and Wales that are way behind everywhere else.

David FitzGerald

OK, nice little piece here. There is no legal reason why you couldn’t get married in church on any day of the year. However, it is worth remembering that during certain holy periods or days, the church may take a decision not to conduct weddings. For example, lent. Easter. Yeah, I can understand that. Anyone actually got married on Christmas Day? I’d love to hear from you. If you haven’t done a, have you ever done a service or Christmas Day or New Year’s Eve or something of that?

Julie Chudleigh

No, I’ve been to them, but I haven’t done any since I’ve been working as a celebrant.

David FitzGerald

Good, great. I suppose….my father and mother got married on April Fool’s Day so my dad can never forget his wedding anniversary. Yeah. Move on from there. Ian said, “it wasn’t mandatory to say ‘obey.’ In the 1970s, his wife chose to say, ‘cherish’ instead. They’re approaching their 51st anniversary, so maybe cherishing, not obeying helped you. I’m assuming you can take the standard wording from a ceremony and change it. Even if you are in a church or in front of a registrar, I’m guessing you can do that?

Julie Chudleigh

So the registrars have got three. I think if I’m right in saying there’s three basic services that they deliver, but they have to the legal wording; it has to be repeated in each one of the ones they use. Obviously the lawful impediment; knowing any legal reason why somebody can’t marry and that has to be open to the public to be able to come into that to to contest if somebody they know is marrying illegally or you know, there is a reason why the law prevents them from doing so. So yeah, you can’t. You cannot change the wording of those. And that’s why a celebrant ceremony is so special and so spectacular. For example, the two most recent weddings that I’ve conducted the couples were from very, very different backgrounds, and the actual vows that they wrote, I wrote them with one couple based on, you know, their desires and their aspirations and their values and their beliefs and their dreams of the future. And the other couple wrote their own. To each other, and I mean, I won’t go into personal circumstances, but, you know, life has a funny way of of, you know, you think this marriage day is going to be the most amazing thing and everything to be hunky dory. Forever. But life sends really challenging circumstances your way. So when somebody is dealing with an illness or, you know, a work issue or something else and they know that they’re going to see each other through these difficult times, the vows that they make are very different to those that they legally have to repeat in a in a legal ceremony.

David FitzGerald

Strange. Have you ever? Obviously, again without specific dates or names… have you ever been in a ceremony where you think, ‘Ohh, this isn’t right?’ I wonder if this has is is actually coercion or whether this is something criminal at the background.

Julie Chudleigh

Not criminal, but coercive and not anything that I’ve conducted yet. And I mean, do you know, the sanctity of marriage and the solemnity of it is still important to me, so there are certain situations where if I was approached to do something, I would probably turn it down because it’s still really important for me to follow a moral code. If you like. Yes, a moral code isn’t far removed from what I mean. I was brought up in the church and the Salvation Army, the Christian Church, I think my parents sent me there to get rid of me on a Sunday, actually, but you know, I went to a Catholic school. But all of these strict moral kinds of codes of conduct still guide my life if you like. But yeah, be having been widely travelled. I just feel very differently about religion now and think we need to be much more open and more accepting.

David FitzGerald

Things have moved on says this text, but very sad God has been elbowed out. Does this make things better? Well, as a discussion point, obviously God has come into your background. Religion has come into your background. And that is in mind when you stand in front of a congregation.

Julie Chudleigh

Yeah. So to give you an example, I mean, particularly when I’m I’m working with families who’ve gone through a bereavement, it is never my responsibility to inflict my views or my values or my religious beliefs or spiritual beliefs on anybody at all. But it’s really tricky when you’re …. I think when you say elbowing God out, not at all because there is still some kind of very powerful thing that helps to kind of guide me if you like. But you know, I find it really tricky if I’m working with a couple who just lost a baby. And you know, I’m coming out with perhaps platitudes that say, you know, God wanted them called home early. Don’t worry. This is going to be…..they just don’t work. Those those kinds of comments, they’re not supportive! We understand far more about how to counsel people through grief and particularly in circumstances…. you know, it’s one thing when…. when my mum was 90 – she’d had an amazing life and of course it was traumatic for us when she was suffering dementia at the end. But you know, it was a kind of cycle, an appropriate cycle of life. And so I think I can use all of my wisdom – and I don’t say this lightly – but, you know, women were hung for being witches many years ago because of the kind of old wisdom that they’d accrued if you like. So I’m not coming at this from any kind of Pagan or witchy perspective whatsoever, but I’m able to use some of the experiences that I’ve gone through to just be kind. And that doesn’t need for me to call on platitudes or use, you know, words that might have appeared in a document from from very long ago. We need to look at things differently.

David FitzGerald

I do. You would you or have you done a Wicca ceremony?

Julie Chudleigh

I haven’t done a Wicca ceremony. I would not rule it out. I would need to kind of look into it really, and make sure that it kind of fitted with my values, but it’s something I would contemplate.

David FitzGerald

Right. And we are talking not twisting with reeds, but looking at, is it right to say Pagan? I’m not too sure, probably getting into deep water here, but there are those that follow the druidical way the Wicca way, the the older way, maybe. Who is who is to say, who is to judge?

Julie Chudleigh

It’s interesting because if you then go, so I mentioned the RSHE scheme of work earlier on and you know that there’s info going into schools about relationships and health and kind of personal development, (including different religious or non-religious perspectives) and so on. And actually, you know, I can’t remember the specific names, the ceremonies now, but there are 8 ceremonies that are from the Pagan ideas, which pre-empted Easter or All Saints Day? So you’ve got Halloween and you know actually for children, I think it’s a good idea for them to understand this history because you know who’s to say who’s right? And I think if we get so dogmatic about a particular way of life or a particular belief system, that’s where we can lead ourselves to, you know, taking very extreme stances and I want to address that with children. I want them to see, you know that there are other options out there, other ways of life that are not scary or or demonic. But you know that we can find the history of where they came about.

David FitzGerald

Absolutely fascinating Julie, but this short trot through your mind has been certainly educational for all of us here. What’s, what’s what’s next? Haven’t you just moved properties or downsized you?

Julie Chudleigh

Yes…So we were chatting about this the last time you and I spoke. So I’ve moved back into a property that I was renting out. I decided that I don’t need ostentatious things. I need a simple life. It’s given me a lovely position to be able to use my finances to do things I enjoy like the sunshine and to walk along the beach rather than slogging myself for a lifestyle that I don’t really need or like so yes, I’m in much smaller accommodation, but it’s my little sanctuary. I’m going to be in the office today writing a funeral service later today. And I will find that very comforting. I think if I can actually pull together what I hope to be able to pull together. Yeah, that’s my plan for today.

David FitzGerald

Absolutely brilliant. And you’re still tutoring. You’re still taking on students?

Julie Chudleigh

I am loving that and having great success with it as well, because again, if you if you are able to draw the light out of children and let them see their own brilliance, then they can still thrive even in this quite tricky time of crazy assessment. So yeah, I’m really pleased with the tutoring that I do as well. I have a lovely life.

David FitzGerald

Absolutely remarkable. Yeah, I’ve got to ask this question. Would you ever gone into the church yourself because you seem to have that value for the church, for Christianity, whether that’s the right or wrong thing to say. But you certainly have the right attitude to assist people from the very first steps.

Julie Chudleigh

Ohh, thank you. Yeah, it was something that was muted when I was a 15/16 year old, so I was with the Salvation Army, which is where I learned all about music and the joy of that. So I learned to play the trumpet there and I think because of the personality that I had and the confidence that I had back then that I was encouraged to go into ministry, if you like. But I kicked against that at the time. I’d got a very strict father, and then the indoctrination of this thing that I was beginning to question when I could see that actually there were people who weren’t always behaving quite as one would have hoped, and I just didn’t like what I saw as a little bit of hypocrisy at the time. So I kind of kicked against it, really. But yeah, I’ve come…I’ve… it’s come full circle.

David FitzGerald

Question everything, which is what we’ve done today. Absolutely brilliant. Julie, you’re an absolute star. And you had me so on your side. Right up to the point that you admit that you played the trumpet?

Julie Chudleigh

Gives me kissy lips.

David FitzGerald

Gives you kissy lips! Do you still play the trumpet.

Julie Chudleigh

I still play the trumpet.

David FitzGerald

Oh, we need you on air, playing the trumpet. You haven’t got one there, have you got a trumpet to hand there, have you?

Julie Chudleigh

No, fortunately, it’s downstairs….for you and for me.

David FitzGerald

Yes, there is a God. Thank you, Julie. Next time you’re back on, I think just a little bit of the trumpet voluntary with or without kissy lip.

Julie Chudleigh

OK, flight of the bumblebee maybe?

David FitzGerald

Fantastic. Listen, you can do that. Poor old Julie appears to have had a stroke. You can’t play Flight of the Bumblebee on a trumpet! No one’s gonna walk away from that one. I’m going to show you Julie Chudleigh. Thank you so much. Indeed. It has been an absolute pleasure.

Julie Chudleigh

We’ll speak soon. It’s a joy! Thanks for having me.

David FitzGerald

Cheers Buddy! Bye

Today, on the fifth anniversary of our Mother’s death, I re-read a chapter from the book that I wrote, and published, at that time:

Not Lost For Words.

Reading it was, in one way a memorial to her, as the grief can still be raw and the writing was (still is) the only way that I could find a path through it. I have, in the intervening years, taken on the role of a funeral celebrant – also, in a way, as a memorial to her; and that has become another means by which I can turn the trauma and grief of her loss into something more positive, something that helps others to find their way through.

In so many cases, at the funerals I lead even adult relatives shy away from talking about their experiences; and children, especially, are sheltered and protected from the rituals. The sense of taboo in relation to conversations around death, dying, loss, and grief, are not good for anyone. Since taking on this role, as a Celebrant, I have honestly found life richer and sweeter and I am filled with so much awe at the wonder of life. That hasn’t come by distancing myself from death – which really is a part of life – but rather through getting closer to it, accepting that we can manage it better by talking about it, so that we really can make the most of this one precious life. I urge everyone reading this, regardless of age or circumstance, to consider the importance of having open conversations about death, thinking about how the language we use can ease or inflame any suffering.

Here, I have reproduced one chapter of the book, which might reveal why it is so important; I hope that it helps you to reflect…

Death Planning and non-Religious Absolution

Since her passing I have heard many times of the final weeks, days and moments of those dying of dementia. There are good deaths, and not such good deaths. In contrast to Mum’s, my Father took himself to bed one afternoon, not feeling too bright and believing he had indigestion, and died alone while everyone was out. In hindsight, this sudden heart attack must have been one of the kindest, quickest, if not the gentlest of ways to go. Most of us hope to die, pain free, at home, with our loved ones around us, given the choice. But there are very few who actually achieve this. Most modern deaths are, at best, efficient but clinical, institutionalised, functional and soul-less. What are they at worst? Death from dementia, in my experience, was often harrowing but it could have been less so.

Dealing with the threat of death by dementia meant absolute uncertainty for my Mum, untold anxiety and inexplicable deterioration of her physical and mental condition. She had lost all control, had been in turmoil for so many years because of the lack of diagnosis followed by further turmoil because, once the diagnosis came, there was then the distinct lack of any prognosis. She had no idea what she was facing and no control. Even if the option had been available in the UK, she would probably not have considered euthanasia, one synonym for which is mercy killing, but she may have thought about assisted dying. In any case, it would have been met with vehement and disparate views from those close to her, all of whom dealt as differently with her death as they did with the choices about their own lives.

Although it’s true that there were still many moments of sunshine in those days, she was terminally stuck between trying to live each day as it came, then having these days marred by the shadow of a terrifying and unknown future. The passive and sometimes pleasant experiences she had on a day-to-day basis were on a wholly different plane to being able to make choices and being able to face the things that she envisaged in her future. The two needed a whole different scope and a whole different language. Just think of how the pandemic affected people, those even with the strongest cognition, in the face of such extreme uncertainties and try to appreciate how this manifests to a dementia sufferer.

If you know what to expect and have choices, then it is possible to ensure that death, even with dementia, is a more dignified and peaceful experience, enveloped in love and informed by compassionate and well-intentioned language. We should have planned for this much sooner! She had had no difficulty in planning the legal and funeral elements, by agreeing and signing a Power of Attorney and arranging her own funeral and cremation but we did not think through other aspects that would impact her and us.

In traditional cultures around the world, death is considered an important rite of passage. Not always as the last rite either, but often as an initiation, a journey across a spiritual threshold. In the Western world we are drawing increasingly on traditions from other cultures and ancient skills to ease the passage of those who are dying, as well as to support each other. One of these is the idea of using the expertise, compassion and detached services of a trained soul-midwife. It seems a wonderful philosophy; to have someone with such a worthy objective take on a role to birth someone’s soul at this point of transition – we pretty much plan every other one throughout life, with a birth plan or a wedding plan. It is not morbid nor gruesome to make a mortal exit plan, placing either a full-stop or a semi-colon after your earthly existence and to consider the paths that you want your chosen legacy to lead to after death. I am certain that this would have helped my Mother.

I had an overwhelming sense that there were things she had never been able to voice; secrets that she felt unable to share with her close family, but which frightened her, both in her developing dementia and at the point of her death – especially given the indoctrination of the hell and damnation route she had experienced as her moral code whilst growing up. This controlling threat, her lack of faith, her fear of the unknown made the dementia and the process of dying a terrifying one for her.   

It also meant that whilst she still had some cognition, she withdrew from relationships, in fear of letting something slip. This comes from a deep intuition, that if she had been able to find forgiveness, if she had been able to dismiss the deeply furrowed guilt, if she was not afraid of the judgements of her family here on earth and any she might face in any after-life she might encounter; if we had been able to use the kindest words to speak about these harsh self-judgements, taking on some responsibility without taking away her choice, then the inevitability of her death would have been better managed.

The Soul Midwives, founded by Felicity Warner, aims to help the dying and their families to experience death in a better way. Her realisation that a “calm and neutral outsider who could ‘deeply listen’ and support the journey” could bring healing calm to the dying process – a spiritual absolution, in a sense. Mum could have shared those things that she felt unable to share with us.

As a family, we were faced with some controversial decisions not all of which had been discussed, either one-to-one with Mum nor within the wider family – it was almost as if everyone thought that if we avoided the words that were necessary, we wouldn’t tempt fate and the whole situation could be avoided.  A death plan relieves considerable burden of decision making from the shoulders of children and creates better opportunities for a peaceful end of life.

It is becoming more widely known that people who  wish to limit the care they receive in foreseeable medical circumstances can do so, especially when they feel that extreme measures, meant to prolong life, would negatively impact the quality of any remaining life. But this kind of decision needs to be made by someone with the capacity or competency to do so; everyone has the right to refuse even life-saving medical treatment but not if you are deemed incapable. We had never even thought about having this conversation with Mum and by the time it was necessary she no longer had the ability to speak, never mind with any clarity. Such advance care planning would have meant we were kinder and more respectful when Mum became unable to participate in her own care choices. 

I would advocate that this forward planning is vital for everyone – I have several friends now facing agonising decisions, made even more distressing because the means to support and protect their parents were not put in place. Now that their parent is no longer deemed to have capacity, they are faced with the possibility that someone appointed by the court or a medical staff member, unfamiliar with their parent’s wishes, will make those important decisions.  To avoid this, lengthy and costly applications and petitions have to be made to the courts, even to access assets to pay for care or funerals, adding stress, even despair of financial collapse on top of dealing with an incapacitated relative. It seems somehow mercenary to be taking this kind of decision when a parent is fit and well and in charge of their own financial and medical decisions. Seeing the distress of my friends now, I realise that it is far less mercenary than their current enforced circumstances.

Decisions about whether or not to activate a DNR were not decisions that could be easily reached – the siblings, and then their children, all had extremely different views on topics as wide ranging as Euthanasia, to the idea of heaven, or re-incarnation or the forever sleep. The last thing that’s helpful at this time are family arguments which create an even bigger chasm than the one that the physical death will cause. I heard told stories of literal physical tussles between families over death-bed interventions because wishes had not been explicitly expressed. We were not guilty of that level of disagreement but, if we had been able to more openly discuss what Mum wanted, in more explicit detail, there would have been less angst and distress – both for her, and for us.

We had, several times, requested that the nursing home call us before calling an ambulance when she had fallen but time and time again, we would find ourselves called out to the local A&E department to find her sitting in a corridor, surrounded by dramatic emergencies, sirens, and medical staff who did not have time to soothe her. She was utterly bewildered, scared and pitiful. The decision to send her wasn’t in her best interests in any way – it was to protect the care home from any accusation of neglect, it was to pass the responsibility on to a more senior medic. I understand their position entirely and don’t blame them, but the most basic of human needs and the most compassionate care were utterly lost in fear, blame culture and legalities. And the hospital staff, without an explicit legal directive from her or us, were trained to administer physically aggressive interventions such as CPR to prevent her death. But there would have been no medical benefits of CPR for my Mum. Her bones were so frail they’d have splintered or broken. If the fall had led to concussion, what were they going to do? Operate on her to relieve pressure?

The ‘Do Not Resuscitate’ order that we had requested is not as controversial as it seems, especially when you have an opportunity to discuss it in a formalised, written death plan, before it becomes necessary.

However, the steps of the ‘Liverpool Plan’ that were eventually put into place were moreso – technically, the procedure is no longer termed as such because an independent government review in 2013, found failings in its use, mostly linked to the target setting and cash incentives that some hospitals embraced, but the steps it employs continue as they deemed that, when used properly, it can assist in a comfortable, dignified and pain-free death.

After Mum’s final stroke – she had had several mini-strokes, apparent because of their impact on her speech and possibly her sight – she could not get up, was unable to swallow, struggling even with her own saliva, and cried out…unintelligible words but clearly, she was very afraid. The decision to place Mum on a driver was made after a third GP came to the nursing home to make an assessment. As a family, my three siblings and I were, by now, distraught, being unable to alleviate this suffering – hers and ours. If she were to ‘recover’ from this stroke, would she be able to leave her bed again? Could she eat of her own free will? Or was choking to death a possibility? Could she see, or had she lost her eyesight? Would any speech return or would she be completely unable to communicate, even in grunts? For weeks prior to this stroke, she was unable to get out of a chair or to walk without the support of two assistants. I had been most upset one day to discover that, when she needed cleaning up after another episode of incontinence, there was a dispute because one GP had suggested she could be encouraged still to walk to the toilet, another had advised that she was hoisted and transported.  I am sure both GPs could justify why this was in her best interests, and both would be right in those justifications, but in the meantime because there was not one clear determined path, my utterly bewildered Mum was at the centre of a tussle.

I supported the option of placing her on this syringe driver, endorsed by my brothers, because, out of the two alternatives, it seemed the kindest, the one that would alleviate both her pain and her agitation, but I was making this choice based on assumptions and not experience.  I was not prepared for the distress that her dehydration caused – Mum was on the driver, with nil by mouth for ten days – and she would snap her mouth shut, clamping it around the moistened bud that we used, and I did not realise at all that we were effectively starving her to death. My naivety then has led to me being much more informed now – whilst there is much controversy about end-of-life care there is also so much more information available to help to make informed choices.  

The high-profile disputes that appear in the media about such palliative end-of-life care do not help. Some, such as the six doctors who belonged to the opposing Medical Ethics Alliance, will argue that “natural death is more often painless, provision of fluids is the main way of easing thirst, and no one should be deprived of consciousness except for the gravest reason.” Whilst others, such as those who produced the cluster phase II trial conducted in Italy, support this as a humane way to manage, highlighting that it significantly enhanced the four dimensions that it surveyed: respect, kindness and dignity; family emotional support; family self-efficacy; and coordination of care.

These conversations were a painful addition to those we had engaged in with social services. In an effort to ensure that we had a more cohesive approach to co-ordinated care, we worked with the nursing home staff to instigate an assessment for a Continuing Health Care plan. Despite the clarity in the wording of the assessment document, there was a distinct lack of clarity in how bad my Mother’s condition had to be in order to access any of that support; it became apparent that she was on trial against a system which valued the gatekeeping of resources above providing for the most basic of her needs, never mind the holistic care of which she was so deserving.  I was informed by the assessor that she was just on the cusp of receiving a plan on the morning of her death.

Although I am absolutely certain that social services made the wrong choices back then, driven by inadequate funding for provision, I now understand that we absolutely made the best choices that were right at the time; that requesting artificial hydration or nutrition, through tube feeding or subcutaneous fluids, would not have been an option for Mum. In fact, this forms part of the NICE-SCIE Guidelines but we were not to know this at the time. And now I know that there is no evidence that it would have helped to improve the quality of her final days. But I bore the guilt of this for a long time because we had no strategy and were not working together in a cohesive team.  With some careful thought put into planning, however distressing it may seem at the time, it is less disturbing than shouldering the burden of decision making at critical times.

We can develop resilience to discover that the moment of death does not need to be terrifying, nor painful. It is possible to enable greater control over a dreaded future and to aim for death to be a more tranquil cessation of the functioning of the body. But this requires a consistent and cohesive approach and despite the lofty goals of organisations such as The Alzheimer’s Society and The Leadership Alliance for the Care of Dying People there is insufficient statutory force to care for dementia patients at any time, not least at the point of death.

The following poem is one that I wrote when I realised that, just after we walked away from her, carrying her clothes in a plastic bag.

In the Blink of an Eye

It seems as if the whole of the past happened just yesterday.

The memories of one lifetime in one parcel locked away.

It isn’t right, it doesn’t give their rightful magnitude:

Momentous joys, and searing pains reduced and devalued.

But then realisation

We should never wonder why …

It’s the same for all, our lives speed by

And it’s gone in the blink of an eye!

Our selfish world chases money while our earth is raped and bled.

We talk of sustainable energy, yet we won’t really care when we’re dead!

We should seek sustainable harmony, treat the earth and its people with care.

For so many more, can walk through life’s door and know it’s okay if we share.

Oh happy realisation!

We should live in the moment, aye!

Let our souls create love and breathe simple peace,

For it’s gone in the blink of an eye.

Our elders, they say, we should nurture; and their wisdom we should respect.

But, in fact, this is just a platitude to which corporates show wilful neglect!

We think in a civilised country they’d have access to good health and care,

To feel loved and secure, know compassion endures but often there’s no kindness there.

                    Oh stark realisation!

                    Existence dismissed with a sigh…

                    No longer of worth, when you’re old on this earth,

                    And you’re gone in the blink of an eye!

We make war on hate and we fight for peace and we educate our youth.

But honesty’s not a virtue when we don’t really want the truth!

We should love those who live long, breathe their peace in and out, and teach our youth to think…

For it’s meaningless unless we are love when we know that it’s gone in a blink.

Oh! blissful realisation!

The irony of life is death;

In the blink of an eye, please don’t wonder why.

Simply love and be loved in each breath.

Originally, I wrote this poem for two women – one lived locally, one overseas. They lost their Mother during the thick of the pandemic and the latter was unable to travel to the UK for the funeral service. I cannot imagine how they felt and nothing can, either then or now, compensate for that loss. But I hope that the poem showed how a Mother’s legacy can transcend even death. It is adapted here for Mother’s day…

Legacy of Love
Legacy’s not the tangible, an heirloom, bequest, or gift;
Legacy’s in words and memories that make our dark clouds lift.
In a song she sang from the old days, one to which we still must sing,
Hearing melodies and lyrics takes us back to them in their Spring.

Legacy lingers in play with babes; the offspring with whom she was blessed,
In the act of sharing joy and love in times back when Mother knew best.
In lessons and learning, in reading a book, dress-ups and laughter filled play,
In affectionate names for her children, strength in sickness and health every day.

Legacy’s in the traditions Mothers carved out oft before.
In the handbooks and guides, in some doctrines and prides of the ways that her ancestors saw.
Though traditions anew will forge strong modern paths and the practices soften our fear,
Still we learn from their love, even when they’re above, and remember their words, strong and clear.

Legacy’s in the transcending verve more powerful than that which you see.
It connects across thousands and thousands of miles and makes small stuff of just geography.
Conversations and chat – not just something that’s heard – fuel hearts with love so strong:
In our souls, in our spirit, in the essence of us, brings us back to her, where we belong.

Legacy transcends the here and now far beyond that we’ve ever imagined.
It reaches, it touches, it lingers, never fading – though, at times, it will leave us saddened;
If awakened, empowered, it can reach deep within, ignites thoughts that are so worthy of
The legacies that are left behind in the power of a Mother’s love.

I wrote this poem when I sat with my mother as she approached the end of her life. She had dementia but remained feisty and determined to make a difference, right to the end. The inequity she faced as a woman must have been stifling, and yet she managed to instill in me a sense of power and agency. As we approach 8th March, the designated day for International Women, I invite you to think on my mother’s story and then read a little about what more needs to be done to support ‘gender equality today for a sustainable tomorrow.’

No Thought

I never thought ‘til now about her era,
Of how men denigrated and dismissed,
In the year that she was born came equal franchise
But alongside men ‘twas hard to coexist.
The privy council classed this lowly status;
Not perceived in her own right til she was one.
Abuse was not a violation til she was over sixty-five,
Inequity for her was just begun.
At twenty-one, there was no other option,
A baby now to nurture and to raise,
Perhaps the wedding more than just a forethought?
A union that would help her pay their ways?
No privilege of lofty education…
No relatives or ancestors of worth…
What chance to chase life filled with pure emotion?
Stamped with this designation by her birth.
Despite the choice to vote for what she wanted,
She couldn’t even earn an equal wage.
For, that prize did not exist ‘til she was forty;
‘Gainst this injustice women round her raged.
She toiled to raise four kids with stoic wisdom!
She fought to give them something she’d not had!
Would they appreciate her dedication?
And understand her choices were not bad?
She was not at the forefront of public suffrage,
She was too young to be called up for conscription,
But she knew her place as mother of her children
And loved them to the ends of all conviction.
She knew she was constrained by patriarchy –
A prodigy of times when women served.
She wrangled with the judgements of society
When offspring’s choices made her feel unnerved.
For she battled twixt the instinct just to love them,
To cushion them and guard them against hate.
No choice but sweet surrender to convention,
Striving to support and influence their fate.
Her lifetime’s seen her through emancipation –
Though prisoner of her mind’s restrictive bars.
I hope she realised her own ambitions,
And felt so proud of all those battle scars.
It is because of her that I have freedom.
And for the world she was no suffragette…
But she laid foundations for a kinder future
And this is her time-honoured epithet.

Although things have moved on since my mother’s era, we have not moved far enough! With our most recent history, I can’t say with any conviction that the human species gets better and better all the time. In fact, I think we are often in a reverse spin. I saw something last week which so strongly endorsed that feeling; it shook me to the core. It was an image of the Munich Security Conference lunch of CEOs, presented on just about every social media platform that I can think of and each time, it was accompanied by the novel suggestion that even the presence of just one woman could reduce the tension and hostility that we have seen escalate beyond what is thinkable for the 21st century.

Rather than becoming embroiled in speculation, let me present you with something less hypothetical to make this most important point: we really do need to look back at history, in order to make the changes that are essential to securing our future. And we really do need more than a whole month to celebrate the history of women.

Icons was a brilliant TV programme shown just three years ago as an eight-part history series for BBC Two and it celebrated the achievements of some of the greatest figures of the 20th century. At the time, I was captivated by finding out about some of the heroes who changed the shape of the world, making it safer, guiding us through changes and challenges brought about by war or shifts in cultural values, and making great advancements in science and technology. The eventual worthy winner was Alan Turing, nominated for deciphering the Enigma machine and aiding the allied victory in World War II.

Prior to the final, an hour-long documentary argued the case for nominees representing different fields of human excellence – Leaders, Explorers, Scientists, Entertainers, Activists, Sports Stars, Artists & Writers. The criteria were: positive achievement and legacy, a degree of recognition for a British audience, and a spread of individuals across the century. Expert panels then met to decide on a shortlist of iconic pioneers for each category and eventually the viewers were asked to vote for favourites to decide the greatest icon of them all. The live final was shown on the 5th of February 2019.

Not one woman reached the final!

The panels who shortlisted the nominees were asked to think about legacy, achievement, impact, influence, contribution to the field, and their profile or iconic status. There is no doubt that there are many women who have left a powerful legacy, demonstrated significant achievement, and who have influenced and contributed to the positive transformation of our world. But it is that last category which feeds the continuing, and quite huge inequity where women are still not fully or fairly recognised for their contribution. Our profile and iconic status…

Clare Balding, who was part of the celebrity advocates, offered her thoughts on why women weren’t represented. She described the 20th century as “the history of men told by men” and observed that women were only just starting to be recognised now. She added that you can’t be an icon unless you are allowed to have the limelight. I think its true to state that women have, in the face of enormous challenges and discrimination, had to fight a long way through shadowy dark wings and blackened auditoria to find any light on the world stage, in order to help not only themselves, but the whole of humanity, to flourish.

We are still having to fight our way through to find the light!

I’d like to include Planck’s principle on science and use it to help illustrate why it is important to focus on pioneering women in history; it gives me hope that we can continue to change the world for the better. He took the view that scientific change does not occur because individual scientists change their mind, but rather that successive generations of scientists have different views. A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.

Think about that! If we can encourage our growing generations of children to be familiarised with equity, diversity and acceptance (not to mention peace and collaboration and love) from the beginning of their education, we can really change the world. Besides our youth activists like Malala and Greta we have more and more examples to show that the secure future of the world lies with an unbiased, informed and critically thinking youth with a firm focus on the efforts and power in all of us – women and girls too. With each generation we can choose to get better and move further and further away from the history or inaccuracies and wild thinking that created the challenging situations that we now face. With each child born, there is an opportunity for a new way of seeing the world. Make sure children recognise their power in it by celebrating women’s history month and learning about the women who changed our path..